Don't have a lot of time here. Going home. Heads are everything. More tomarrow. :drink:

As long as we use Fel Pro MLS gaskets we should be fine without O-rings. I'm running a set of AFR 165s on the Cobra with 9.2:1 compression and 10psi of boost and haven't had any issues with them.

As for head size that depends a lot on the specs of the cam. Joedls, do you have any idea what the specs are on that custom grind cam? We are talking about only 302ci so we don't want to go too big unless we are going to rev it really high (above 6500rpms). And if that's the case then we need to ditch the hydraulic roller and go to a solid roller. Hydraulic rollers in the 5.0 are only good to about 6500rpms. I think something around 185cc to 190cc if the cam has 220 at .050 or more. If the cam has less than 215 at .050 then something in the 165-170 range would work well.

Ben, I'd pass on that 8.8. One, it has drum brakes and two, it only has 28 spline axles. Also, I'm fairly sure that it will have to be narrowed to fit under the RX7 but you could measure and see. If you want to go with an 8.8 get one from an Explorer that already has disc brakes and 31 spline axles.

I agree about the MLS gaskets. I used the Cometics on my 347 with 12 PSI of boost and 9.7:1 CR, no problems.

I really can't say what the specs on the cam are. I couldn't find any info on it. I think I'd go with 185cc or 195cc with that blower. You really want to minimize any restrictions so the blower can do its job.

Heads make the engine!!!! All the engine does is stay together!!!! AFR FTW!!! 185 or 205!!! 185 will do the trick, with Nitrous exhaust ports, http://www.airflowresearch.com/185sbf_strp.php

I kind of jumped a few pages.... what is the short block??? year? roller? what is done to it? Compersion?

My fox ran 11s with a stock block 9.5:1 cast pistons 351w, with a lot of blow-by, with a set of AFRs!!! 11s, it only dyno 325hp to the wheels!!!

The biggest question is how fast you guys want to go???

I agree about the AFRs, I like mine.

Canfields are also up there with AFR.

Check these out, they come with a 660 lift cam. Yeyah!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/sbf-c...1%7C240%3A1318

This is all you need!!! N/A, what kinda of collection can you guys make?

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/pts/976324106.html

Offer this guy, like $500 see what he says

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/pts/974894294.html

Those are pretty. Would it be good on top of our 302 for a blown application?

after Glen opens these up a bit.... yeah. anyone know the info onthe block? year? roller? what is in it? If he will take $500 yeah.

Forged 302 bored .030 over, custom grind roller cam specifically for blower, reconditioned E6 iron heads with dual springs and 1.6 roller rockers.

so its a roller bock??? out of what car? rods?

165s... how cute. :lame:

There is one issue with those heads. They look like they are the pedestal mount heads which are the same I have on the Cobra. To use them we would have to get the pedestal mount rockers, the pedestals and shims. That's not a big deal but you'll need to factor another $300 into the cost for new stuff.

I'm back.

Ok, the heads should be 190cc to 210cc depending on cam lift and RPM limit. But a smaller intake port will work. With the forced induction intake size is realitive to boost. The exhaust port and restrictions after that are VERY important.

We need more information on the rear gear and total boost. What the final weight is going to be----give or take a few pounds.

If cost is the only factor here, then find the heads you can efford and then build every thing around that.

Are we going to go thru the short block or just use what we have as is??


Any heads we get, the ports can be cleaned up and do a little bowl work. Port match with the intake is a must. But, I don't like an exact match, I like the head ports to be a little bigger than the intake because of port pulse. The intake port being smaller helps break up the pulse wave. :drink:

I'd probably suggest 4.11s for our application. What do you think?

Total boost 12-15psi with methanol injection :huh:

Weight, and I'm really guessing on this one is probably going to be something on the order of: 2,750 +- 150. :huh:

I'd love to tare through a block with you. I've never done it so it'd be a fantastic learning experience. What would we be looking at and trying to cost effectively improve. I think Joe said it only had about 5,000 miles on it and it was all forged. Please clarify Joe.

Would we necessarily need to change the cam to be appropriate to the heads, or might the one that's in there work just fine.

Cost is the controlling limiting factor. But I have *some* flexibility here because it's such a critical component to making reliable power. Let's think on the order of <=$1,000, preferably a lot less than :)

What gears depends a lot on the cam and how tall of a tire we use. With a light car like this and the amount of torque we are going to have down low with the roots blower I think something in the neighborhood of 3.73 to 4.11 with a 26 inch tall tire would be ideal if the engine makes power to 6000rpms. If Joe can remember what the redline was before it would help.


We don't have specs for the cam but I'm assuming because he had it made for the E6 heads that it is going to have more lift and duration on the exhaust side which isn't a bad thing when it comes to SBF heads. He also had it made for the blower which we are still going to be using so it should work fine. I also don't think there is a need to go through the bottom end with only 5000 miles but it wouldn't hurt to pull a rod and main bearing just to make sure they look good.


Did you speak to Sean about the PM I sent you? Heads are another option I can discuss with them. When I bought my AFRs they only cost me around $1200 new.

All this is food for thought. But, no matter what you deside "WE" will make it work. Hell, I have built a $12.00 engine that ran a best 11.93.:judge:

Yes and I'll PM you later. Basically it's just a matter of details.

Pony boy (2007gtpony) has made an offer------he said he will test the engine in his FOX body racer for us. Isn't that nice?:drink:

Que? You mean you guys will take the block and build it up, using the Fox as the test platform?

No. What he meant was AFTER the 302 is built he will put in his FOX body to run it for us. Sort of test run--or runs. Like I said; Isn't that nice.:drink:

:censored: Giving us the 351 heads would be nice. I can blow up the motor on test runs all by myself. :rolling:

Yea, I think his heart was in the right place. But, you know.............:sm_up_there:

He should probably test it to see how long it will last too before it needs to be rebuilt. It's kind of like the old Tootsie Pop commercial with the owl. How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Pop, The world will never know.

Ignition System
 

I want to clear as many items as early as possible. While the engine might take on some slightly different configurations, I don't imagine the ignition system will change all that much. With an eye towards performance value, what should I be looking for for this engine regarding distributor, coil, etc.

Trans Axle and Tires
 

Assuming the 4 speed wide ratio top loader, a 3.73 axle and 255/60x15 tires, here's what we're looking at for rpm vs. mph. I'm thinking a 6,000 to 6,500 rpm redline here. Let me know if you have some other axle and tire sires you want me to plug in.

The engine seemed to quit making power ~ 5500 RPM, but I'm sure that is because it was choked down; stock exhaust manifolds, 2" exhaust, small ports and valves on the heads. I think that shortblock will hold up to about 550 - 600 HP. Much more than that at these blocks start splitting without further work.

I agree that the bottom end doesn't need to be gone through, but checking the bearings would be wise. Won't take much effort.

I had the smallest pulley made for that blower when it was on my 347 and it would make 11-12 PSI, so I think 15 PSI will be hard to come by with that blower. It is affectionately referred to as a "baby blower" in the hotrod world.

This is what I used for ignition:

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/...ng_Master.aspx


http://www.msdignition.com/product.a...s=ford+e-curve

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/...r_SS_Coil.aspx

Good to know, let's get some good heads and shoot for 12 psi. With headers, good tune, etc. I'm guessing we could hit the 500BHP level, which should be stupid plenty in a 2,700lbs +- car. :judge:

Actually, the better the air flows and the fewer restrictions there are, the less boost and the more power you're gonna make. So let's shoot for 10 PSI with the same pulley that was making 12 PSI on my 347.


We can dream anyway.

To give you an idea of where the car should be at this engine should make about the same as my Cobra. Maybe a little more if we go with 185-190cc heads and will have more lowend torque thanks to the roots blower. My Cobra is about a 1000lbs heavier, has a suspension that's not ideal for drag racing and I've gone 11.69 at 118. I think with a proper suspension, the lighter weight and more lowend torque mid 10's at 123-126mph is possible.

You are also talking about a 40ci difference so even with better heads we might still be in the same boost as the 347.

Couple questions:

- Would we want to put 351 Heads on our 302 block? Any strange problems that have to be dealt with doing that, or is it "the way to go"?

- BTW, what about intake and carb, those seem important too. :nuts:

Yeah, that's why I said we could dream. The truth is, the 347 breathed very well. It had CNC machined Dart Pro 1 heads (2.02/1.60 valves, 195cc runners) that were port matched to both the intake and exhaust, LT headers, and a 2 1/2" Magnaflow exhaust. So, if that 302 makes 12 PSI of boost, it will be breathing very well.

If you are talking aftermarket heads the 351 and 302 use the same head, just a different intake manifold. As for stock heads, I think the only difference is that the 351 heads came with larger valves but I'm not sure. Anyone know?

Don't we have the lower intake for the blower already or just the blower case?

I'm also not sure what size carb we should run. My guess is around a 750 because of the blower but I'm not sure.

Windsor heads are interchangeable. That was the hotrodders way to go before all the aftermarket heads came along.

I have the intake made for this blower. I would suggest the Mighty Demon 750 blower carb. It worked very well for me. Unfortunately, I traded it for something else about 2 months ago because I'm not planning to put the blower back on my 347.

Sorry if I'm a little dense. So does this mean that if we have the low rise intake for the 174 we SHOULD use aftermarket 302, because they'll match the intake?

So, aftermarket 302/351, doesn't matter for performance or fitting to the intake?

No, you can use any head you want, 289, 302, 351. They will all work. What I'm saying is the blower has two parts to it. The blower case and the a lower intake manifold that is designed specifically for the blower. See in the picture below. The lower intake gets bolted to the heads and then the blower gets bolted the the intake. Finally the carb is bolted to the top of the blower.