I'll be applying for CA DOJ and ATF permits pretty soon. It's probably best I keep some of my opinions to myself. :D

Yeah good idea for our sakes?

good luck, you're gonna need it :(

I have a sparkling clean record and can do the Bureaucratic tango with the best of them. Combined with being persistent and annoying when I want something, I am a worthy adversary. :sm_laughing:

Yes but you're overlooking the states ability to say "No" with no explanation and completely ignore your paperwork,

Well, the CA DOJ left a message with me this morning saying that (to my surprise) for my scale of intended operation there are no license/permit requirements. Just have to check with the city of intended base of operations what their ordinances are. Still have to check with the ATF and get some insurance quotes. It's really the insurance side that could be a deal breaker.

You could still do everything right, and they would still so "No" without an explanation, we've gone through it before, with our FFL, CCW and other permits in cali

Just witnessed a fat gelatinous POS writing up out of date tags in a grocery store parking lot. The fu*kers have the unmitigated audacity to write "Commitment to Service" on the side of their cars. Should say "Commitment to Armed Robbery". This is in a city where the city hall and Police Department have brand new fantastic facilities where the working public is struggling to eek out an existence. What a joke. . .

Well, they made the mistake of leaving a message on my phone stating they were from the DOJ and that they don't really regulate what I'm asking about. In other words, I don't even need their "permission". If they want to take me to court later, that will be some helpful evidence. :) Now I have no idea about the ATF, but at least this initial hurtle is cleared to my satisfaction in order to proceed.

Oh trust me, they are veryt careful how they disqualify people. I've heard the following
-Reached the maximum number of applicants
-Are no longer accepting applications
-Improperly filled out paperwork (bullshit)
-Suspicious application
etc etc, get the idea?
Sucks, but im just saying dont get your hopes up.