What car do you think is fast!
 

I have been calling people out on the SD meets FB page for talking shit on American cars. Basically, I'm bullying to the mentally weak. Here is what I don't get. How people think some cars are fast.
For example:

-I have seen fast civic hatches both road racing and drag, but I've never seen a fast S2K other than on the internet.

-I have never seen a fast Subaru anything period. They are effectively Miatas; cool looking, trendy, and only competitive on autocrosses.

-I've only seen fast Supras drag racing.

-I've never seen a fast RX-8. Regardless of type of motorsport I've just have never seen it.

-The new SS suck dick. I've seen one fast one. and it had a very large blower.

-As much as I hate to admit it, GTRs are fast. You have to be on your A game to hang with them in a Corvette. It can be done and I've done it, but they are fast.

***The only disclaimer that I make is that these are observations that I have made at amateur racing events and I am obviously not including what I have seen on Youtube / Streetfire / TV

My only thing is that American cars are heavy beasts and have to have a lot of horse power to compensate. Granted the Vette isn't heavy though. The Evo can make some great power out of a 4 banger, I made great power in my Eclipse with a V6 turbo (was slow stock). When you look at a bone stock car, not too many American cars are fast. And the new Mustang Cobras are not stock.

Do you run into any upper end Porsches or Ferraris at your level? I would think a GT3 RS would be pretty fast. :huh:

I've seen a couple 9 Second SS maros before they closed fontucky. Never actually seen a fast supra, just big dyno numbers, I've seen plenty of 11 second subies.

<< As much as I hate to admit it, GTRs are fast. You have to be on your A game to hang with them in a Corvette. It can be done and I've done it, but they are fast.

I don't know if you remember, but we sorta kinda met over at Digital Corvettes talking a bit of smack on the R35 AIR. And I feel the same generally. They obviously built something pretty damned effective in a variety of contexts. Apparently the new Nismo GT-R is going to be just over 2 seconds to 60 from the factory. Damn little on this planet has that kind of off the line explosion.

Within the plausible range of what I could afford (if I wanted to shift goals that is), if I were buying American I'd be all about the C7. I dig it. I just love NA V8s and the swagger of Vettes. If I were buying foreign it'd be a toss up between the GT-R and Turbo Porsche. I actually lean towards the Turbo Porsche as an all arounder because it's a bit smaller with excellent visibility and apparently rides pretty well, where the GTR is a little harsh, while obviously working in all weather and being on the whole "refined". Unfortunately it's fuck all expensive to maintain.

Anyway, the "fastest" drag car on Motorgen remains a Civic. Pure race car though. You're the fastest road course car that I'm aware of. Ron has the most impressive all arounder, including back seats and entertainment system(!). I'll probably keep futzing with my C3 and over the years turn it into something completely unique, relatively fast, functional. Lot's of cool niche stuff here among an otherwise small group. It's why I keep the bar open to be honest.

Sorry for the ramble.

I'm still gunning for that Civic with the Chevelle so that I have the fastest drag car on here but with the little I have planned I'm not going to beat it. I'm just hoping to break into the 9s.

As for the Cobra, I really don't consider it fast. Compared to most daily driven cars I guess it is but to me it's not. It is a fun all arounder though. Plus I don't have any idea what it'll run in a quarter mile now.

I guess I can finally be in the running to take out that civic. I can just keep upping the boost until iI make it. Though my trans might not take it.

Your car isn't going to run in the 9s.

If it makes in the 700 HP range it might

Not with the way it's set up it won't.

No harm in trying, the trans is the weak link but there might be a 3link...

Evo X: 3,527 lbm 2013 Mustang GT Premium: 3,483 Lbm Just saying.

and

Yes Porsche GT3's and GT3's RS are very fast. I've seen ones that are WTC level of preparation run 1:47's at the Roval.

So here is my point.

-The fasted Drag car here is a Civic well guess what I've seen a lot of fast civics. Evo's came up. Everyone has seen a fast Evo. They are almost at the Vette Viper where you expect them to haul ass an you worry about what mod have been done. I still haven't seen a fast NSX or a fast Subaru not online. There maybe a couple of shops like AEM or GST that have them, but I haven't seen then in person and I haven't seen any on the street.

Now the GTR. The weakest link in motorsports for 99% of the population is the driver. I took the Mustang drag racing and dropped half a second on the 1/8 without changing anything including air pressure. I went autocrossing with it and in 4 runs went from a 51 sec run to a 46 second run. The GTR (and the Evo) really will drive itself. All the driver needs to do is know the line and braking points. As soon as the car is turned in bam, full throttle! Missed upshifts, no problem. Rev matching downshifts, no problem. Abrupt steering and throttle inputs, no problem.
I cant tell you the incredible amount of joy that I felt when that GTR spun in front of my in turn three at the Roval. That guy pushed it further than the computer could handle. FUCK YEAH MURICA!

For now.

KAIZEN mothafuckas.

I know of guys with fast NSX's. The problem is they baby them like no other, won't let mechanics drive them, won't let models touch them, etc etc

That's a princess, not a fast car. There are definitely fast NSXs in Japan though, both racing and Wangan etc. There's also obviously fast Subies in WRC.

BTW, Carlos, as you know the C7 Z51 is getting more sophoisticated with driver aids too. It has rev matching now, and apparently a pretty good e-diff. Stock vs. stock I'm sure the average guy would be considerably faster in a C7 than C6 for these (and other) reasons.

I read that the next Mustang besides having the IRS will be about 400 lbs lighter. That would be pretty sweet.

There is no basis to say a car is fast if it hasn't been to the track. To many of these young bitches think just bolting up parts makes cars fast, but the cars never get sorted out. Again, I've never seen a fast NSX at the track. I've seen NSX's with Comptech Superchargers, mugen everything, and Endless brake get handled by EG civics with H22a or K20 motor swaps.
Yes the new vette has a lot more user aids than the C6. The base C7 pulls 1.08g on a skid pad, goes 60 in 3.8 secs, and traps 117 from the factory. The electronic differential is awesome. They first came on Evo's and GTR's, but now Ferrari and GM are using them. Huge difference. When the funds are available I will get a TORSEN for my Corvette. I instantly noticed it on the stang.
If the new Z model has a dual clutch transmission I will have to rob a bank.

I will go one step further. I've seen fast Miata's at an Autocross. Never saw a fast NSX.

Ferrari has had e-diffs for a while (at least 430?), but the Japanese have had AWD trickery since the 90s that was pretty sophisticated AFIK.

AWD since the 90's yes, but I haven't drank the Kool-Aid on AWD yet. Now electronic differentials are fairly new. Evo was the first that I know of. Subaru still doesn't us it.

Now having driven both. Evos rotate great and pretty much do what you tell them. Lets say you put some stiffer sway bars on an Evo. Still handles great first time out. The stability system measures the drivers inputs and senses the cars motion and make then match.

Subaru don't measure the drivers input. The mechanical differentials will do what ever they are going to do. Slap some sway-bars on a subaru and if they are good then the car will handle well if not it will go to shit. Regardless plan on having to adjust air pressures, alignment,...........

You could get one of those fancy Nitrous kits that sprays off the line and automatically cut when the boost builds.

Running 9's is not easy though. Even with lots of money. Ron what mods are you doing to the Chevelle?

wouldn't need it. With how the blower is set up I made 11lbs by 3200. I'll use meth for the extra fuel though.

11lbm by 3200 rpm. Is that good? Hopefully you are making some decent power before 11 lbm a of boost.

Yes, peak boost is around 15psi so I won't need off the line grunt, we'll see exactly, last time we couldn't make a clean pass, had some timing issues and compression issues. However Ron and I made identical power, but he's a 347. it'll have less under the curve but much more HP

No basis from one mans perspective, not another's. many don't care to go to a timed event and would rather just enjoy the butt dyno or risk a street competition. In no way does this designate a car slow or "not fast"

That said, I sadly report the fastest cars I have been in were mostly mustangs from my local clubs. I've been in and driven variants of other cars from exotics to Gm's but none of them were wildly
Modified.

I'm currently running a 1.6 rocker ratio and will be going to a 1.8. With the 1.6 rocker my lift is only .585. With a 1.8 my lift will be .658. I'm also going with an X-pipe and better flowing mufflers. The final change will be tuning the nitrous kit on a dyno. With the 250 jets I think the AFR is too rich which is causing a slight bog off the line. I think I can pick up my .01 from those changes.


That was before I fixed everything. I made 22 rwtq more than you when we both went and I'm making an additional 35 rwtq now.

My Chevelle is the fastest car I've been in. My brother had a friend with an all steel '55 Chevy that use to run 9 flat up at LACR. It would pulled the front wheels on the street. He rode in it once and said the launch was like getting hit in the chest, it was hard to breath. And that was their slow car. His dad had a twin turbo Anglia that ran in the 7s.

And that's the problem. Perspective. Yup how many FAST cars with tons of horsepower have you seen go to the track and run shit numbers?

Way too many to count.

Perspective it bullshit. It's like saying you're the coolest man in you own tiny little world. Yeah you're cool, .........faggot. Butt dyno = Bullshit; Actual dynos are even bullshit to an extent. They are only an indicator of what a car is theoretically capable of, but it's not actually doing shit.

My actual point is though. When you bought your fox did you buy it because you read about it in a magazine or because you knew guys were running them at the track and they performed?

In the case of the NSX: guys swear by them, but when was the last time you went out and saw one do better than mid-pack? Guys like me will go to a car meet, car show, tuning shop and see a NSX all done up. I will say to the owner "Hey man nice car" they will say "thanks whats is your car". When I tell then it's a vette then here comes the I smoke those all the time bullshit. Same thing with the S2k crowd the Subaru's.

What is "fast" at the strip?
What is "fast" at the Roval, Willow Springs, etc.?

Wait, two things confused me from this post.

1. Perspective is bullshit? Isn't this thread asking everyone for their opinion which is directly correlated with perspective and a direct result of individual experience?

2. Did you just call me a faggot?

I was referring to horsepower, we were only 1hp IIRC. You're always going to have the torque advantage, i'll have the HP advantage.

Maybe, most of my NSX buddies don't claim shit cause they won't drive them hard, stance nation auto show off bullshit. Driver makes the time more than the car does, we all know this.

Ron and I don't care if our cars get banged up while we use them, others and not so willing to use their cars that way. Ron and I have always made the joke that to beat the nicer car all you have to do is swerve a little too close, and it's true.

1) no I didn't call you a faggot. It would be very clear if I was calling you a faggot.

2) Read the OP again. The whole basis of the opening post is calling out cars owners that think they are fast with no basis. I'm not sure how you got it confused.

He didn't get it confused, saying a car isn't fast cause it's never been to the track isn't exactly the end all be all. Would you say Adam's car is slow?

This. I'm not confused at all. I was simply pointing out , as various others have, that's there is quite a bit of ambiguity due to perspective and bias. Hard to define fast as a standard.

Originally Posted by BADDASSC6
And that's the problem. Perspective. Yup how many FAST cars with tons of horsepower have you seen go to the track and run shit numbers?

Way too many to count.
This is more from the owner not driving the car to it's potential cause they never do. Many car owners, even many forums members don't go out with the intention of fucking things up like we do. I've taken friends cars 2 seconds faster in drag events simply for this reason, many of them won't let me drive them any more either

-Your logic is that cars don't perform because they are not driven hard. So why do 80% of the new 5.0s you see at the track run hard and 90% of the SS suck dick? By your logic it's because the 5.0 owners drive harder and are more willing to through caution to the wind and wad their cars up. By your logic Evo drivers are more aggressive and skilled drivers than STI drivers.
Here is reality: AN NSX is a slow POS. I have personally seen a COMPTECH SC NSX get smoked by a LS1 SS with the factory cam and longblock. Slap some chamber plates, springs and shocks on the SS and it will go faster than the NSX on the twisties. I know this because I have seen it. NSX is like the the new BRZ, all the value is placed on the driving experience. Lap times and numbers were not a priority. The 2.8L or 3.2 L makes N/A two rotor wankel torque. The FX motorsports NSX has a fully built motor on boost and spray with MASSIVE aero to be competitive. Not to mention the Ringer they use for a driver. I cannot believe some one let you drive their car. J/K. I an happy to hear that you have actually been to the track. I started to believe that all your knowledge was simply internet based.

Perspective it bullshit. It's like saying you're the coolest man in you own tiny little world. Yeah you're cool, .........faggot. Butt dyno = Bullshit; Actual dynos are even bullshit to an extent. They are only an indicator of what a car is theoretically capable of, but it's not actually doing shit.

Many don't participate in sporting events, it in no way makes the car slow, power numbers or not, if I pull up next to an LP-640 i'm gonna have a hard time winning regardless

-You just made my point: LP-640 is slow. You may think it's fast because of what you saw on the internet. At a track it's EVO IX fast (stock). Why there are so many 9-10 sec Gallardos, but how many 9 sec LP-640's are there? Because it's a piece. It was developed before Audi took over and it's a one trick pony. LP-640 are not quick and don't handle however they do top out like a champ.
-Not going to sporting events blah blah blah drivers blah blah you are just stating the obvious. I took the stang to the roval and smoked a Boss, ZL1 and a Superleggera only because of driving.
-In the other thread you thought your stang was going to run 9's and make 700 hp?? What happened.

My actual point is though. When you bought your fox did you buy it because you read about it in a magazine or because you knew guys were running them at the track and they performed?

Justin and I are similar in why our foxes are what they are, I saw one as a kid and knew I would have one, my step mom had an 85 that I thought was ugly, ask anyone in my family and sadly I wanted a fox since I was a kid.

You just told me when you knew you wanted a fox. You didn't answer the question asked which was why you wanted a fox? The "Basis" of your decision. When you were a kid did you know Fox's were quick? BTW, That was a question for Justin

So since we struggle with reading comprehension I will try to dumb it down. Motorgen is an Automotive enthusiast site. What ever from that takes for an individual. If guys talk about performance then logic leads me to believe that they purchased a vehicle to suite their performance needs. So why is this decision made by so many base on what youtube, magazines, forums tell them and not what they see kicking ass on the track, the streets, or the trail.

Fuck yeah adams car is slow!!!!!!! It may be scary, but it's slow.:drink:

So in the OP I referred to many different types of motorsports Drag, road, auto-cross....... I intentionally said fast because it's descriptive enough to make the point. Why would you buy a performance car and claim it can perform if is just doesn't. I even made a the internet / youtube disclaimer because obviously with enough money you can make anything fast.
You guys are trying to take this down the what is fast rabbit hole. That's not what was written in the OP.

Not trying to take it the wrong way Carlos. In fact, I agree with you immensely and you are making the point I have always discussed in person with other enthusiasts but actually much better, so for that hats off.

As to my car, Guy was spot on. I bought it solely on looks. I realize some people might even have a visceral response to that and that's fine. When I was 7 years old in the 80's I thought it was the coolest car ever. I had no inclination of speed. It was only after purchasing one at the age of driving (15) that I realized its potential and began building and educating myself.