RX-Snake: Engine Related
 

I'm "half" excited.:D But I'm there.:thumbs_up:

I see where Ben is going with this.


First question; will the SBF need a rear sump pan or a front sump pan in the RX7?:drink:


After 2:00 pm today I won't be here till Sat around 9 or 10 am.

I really like where this is going. Being a FORD guy I like it. Mazda will give a cool factor the Mustang II would not.:)


I say this, we leave Joe's engine as is with blower. I'm betting there is plenty of power just as is. Build the vehicle around that combo. A 2500 lb vehicle is going to run very strong with Joe's combo. Just throwing it out there.:D


What type of speed/et are we shooting for???

I'm thinking an 11 second with the SBF.:thumbs_up:

Looks like on a gen 1 the stock dual sump pan (Fox body style) will fit if we remove the cross member and turn it 180. Here's the info.

"...1st gen. Basic Kit for 289-302-351W Fords...
This new addition allows bolt-in installation of the lite-weight 5.0, requires NO crossmember modification, yet still fits under the hood !!! The secret is simply un-bolting the stock front crossmember (6 bolts), then REVERSING it 180 degrees and re-installing it. This causes the center portion that interferes with the oil pan to swing to the rear instead of the front, allowing a stock double sump late Mustang 5.0 pan to straddle both the crossmember AND steering linkage!!! A short oil filter (or 90 degree adapter) is required, but the low placement buys you a lot of room under the hood for air cleaners and such. Lots of room for headers too. With this kit, the EFI manifold from the Mustang 5.0 will clear the stock 1st gen RX-7 hood."

I found it at http://www.grannysspeedshop.com/

I agree, it's also keeping in the spirit of the site by mixing things up a little. Heck, Mazda's owned by Ford so I factored that little quirk too.


I think it makes obvious sense to stick with Joe's 174, which apparently only needs some parts to be repaired. Wonder if it can be cost effectively improved during repair?

If we're going to build a purpose built car, even if it's dirt cheap, I think it makes sense to target the mid 11s or faster. This, however, means we'll need to cage it, which probably ain't such a bad idea for safety and all.

Hell, the basic 174 is going to be plenty of boost. We're going for a 2,500 lbs or less vehicle. Traction is going to be a BIG problem. We are in "Old Cobra" thinking here.:judge:

Yes, some sort of cage is going to be needed. :):drink:

We need a name for this--- Like Mazbra or something simular?? "Cobza"---you get the idea.

Don't need a full cage, just a rollbar, if it's quicker than 11.50. Only need a cage once you get in the 9s. Of course, I'm assuming it's not a convertible. I don't think I ever remember seeing a convertible RX7, but I really am not very familiar with them.

I'll look into repairing the blower. It might take some swap meet trips. I tried to source the parts I needed shortly after my crash and didn't have alot of luck.

Yeah, the blower was reconditioned between the time I pulled the 302 and switched to the 347. It was making ~8PSI on the 347, then I switched pullies and increased it to ~12 PSI. I'll dig through my stuff to see if I can find the larger pulley. We should probably start off with the 8 PSI or we would probably need to replace the head gaskets with MLS.

There were Convertible RXs, but we'll be getting a coupe for sure.

I remember now, a 4 point if faster than 11.5 and 6 point if faster than 10, right. I don't see us running 9s:judge:, but faster than 11.5 is distinctly possible and a good goal I think.


Keep us posted on the blower and if it seems like too much of a pain. I have been curious to build a ghetto turbo car, and some of those turbos off the old GM diesels are very cheap. But that would certainly add some complexity to the system.

What all is done to the engine?

Need and SHOULD are two different things. A cage would add strength also, especially if you gut the doors, lexan the windshield, yada yada. If you installed one first, it would keep everything square to the world before you take the sawz all to it. (IMHO):drink:

We can run VERY sticky rubber at the track, and if we really want to optimize for straight line we can set up the suspension for it as well. How much we want to optimize for straightline performance, or whatever, is another question.

I'll think of some names after I've had a few later on tonight. Look out.

Forged 302 bored .030 over, custom grind roller cam specifically for blower, reconditioned E6 iron heads with dual springs and 1.6 roller rockers.

Here's a link to what was done on the heads.http://motorgen.com/forum/showpost.p...4&postcount=98

is this thing getting blown or turbo'd ?? also im guessing its staying carb not fuel injected?

also how is the fuel system gonna be set up? if you guys wanna save weight you can toss out the stock tank and make a 5 gal fuel cell.

also wat fuel are u guys using i think that if you guys go forced induction then u gotta go 100oct, c16 or e85

I ran this blower on my 347 with 91 octane and water/methanol injection @ 12 PSI. I first ran it @ 8 PSI without water/methanol. It ran fine with 22 degrees of spark @ 8 PSI.

Depends on how much room is under that hood. This blower comes with a low profile intake manifold. I had to put on a very small scoop to fit it under the 68 Mustang hood. It was probably 1.5" too high to fit under the hood.

blown if if the Holley can be made to work. Otherwise, enkeivette and I are sort interested in some turbo time.

Probably stay carbed, especially if it's blown. But if we end up doing a turbo, especially if we go with E85 as a fuel type, then maybe throttle body injection, but that's as far as we'd go I think. Easiest is to stay carbed and blow it. But seeing what you've been able to do with E85 and turbos makes me warm and fuzzy inside.

This will be a function of just how purpose built we want to go. But we can decide this rather later.

Don't have to, but it sure opens some other boost-a-riffic options.

This is good to know. If the blower doesn't work out for lack of parts or whatever, corn fed has some experience getting stupid power out of a turbo with E85, which has a certain "cool" factor going for it. However, I think that'd mean we'd have to consider at least TB injection to flow enough fuel.

And if we stay carbed we just need a Bosch O2 sensor and we can tune it with my LM2. Is it a Holley carb? Holley carbs are cake to tune.

Where do you live? PM me your # and we can make arrangements to get the engine & tranny over to you next week, maybe.

Do you have a hoist to lift the engine out of the back of my truck once I get there?

I do have a hoist, just need to put it back together. I'm more than happy to come pick it up from you at your convenience. I'll PM you with my info.

Thanks, I'll call you this weekend. Either way, I'd be glad to haul them to your place or you can pick it up. They are stored at my place of business, here by Angel Stadium, so it's not that far from you.

SBF and Trans Pickup
 

Just picked up the engine and trans from joedls. Also completed transfer of ownership. I was relieved to find there were no problems with the title and it went smooth as pie. The gal at AAA said she had heard of something like the show car regsitration (easier than the custom built), but wasn't sure because AAA doesn't handle that.

Head Work
 

BRUTAL64, when can you receive the heads? Also, did you say you were in need of something you don't have in order to do a top flight job on them? If so, what is it.

Repairing the 174
 

joedls, what do you need to repair the 174? Are their repair kits? Is there a way we can help to get you what you need?

I need the shaft housing and an end plate. I'm pretty sure the shaft housing can be purchased, but I haven't been able to find an end plate. That's why I said we might need to go to some swap meets. Anyone wanna join me at the next Pomona and Long Beach swap meets? Pomona is 1/18 and Long Beach is 1/11 & 2/8. I'm not sure I can make 1/11, but I could make 2/8.

What I need is a seat grinder and a valve grinder. I sold both mine 10 years ago.:o


You say top flight??? Hell, I thought you wanted them "ported" not "pretty".:D

I gota guy in Placentia that is pretty cheap. He did the heads on one of Leno's duesenbergs, so he is good too.

ben, One of the guys ta DC works for Wieand in R&D. Snuggle up boy.:sm_laughing:

The intake is going to depend on whether or not I can get this blower back together. If not, someone needs to decide what intake will be used. Does anyone make a header for this swap?

What we may want to discuss here is this:

Using 351 Windsor heads or a set of cheap alum heads.


I'll be more than happy to port the 302 heads, it's just the exhaust port --no matter what I do-- it's going to be too small so are the stock valves.

Saturday night we'll sit down and talk about the best way to go.

Don't know on the headers yet, we could go with shorties if nothing else is out there.:drink:

Open question for all:

What are the price points for other heads?
351W
Alum
?

For money and time invested, it kinda sounds like we'll get a better ROI on using different heads perhaps. :huh:

...Full Length 1-3/4" Headers for 2nd gen/Ford conversion...
Jim Galloway reports he is very happy using the BBK #15690 headers on his conversion. BBK calls them "351 Swap Headers", and they come with 1-3/4" primaries, 3/8" flanges, and dome style collectors. They are available in chrome (#1569) and ceramic coated (#15690) finishes, and you can get them from Summit Racing.

Hugs is code for sloppy mouth sex.

I vote for better E-Bay heads. An MLS HG will likely cost $180 for a pair, so it doesn't seem worth it to invest nearly $200 in HGs and cheap out on the heads, when we will likely want to pull the choked out heads after we get our first 13 second time slip.

I'm not a Ford guy, so I won't make specific head suggestions. But we should be checking E-Bay and craigslist for some better heads periodically.

07GTPONY has a set of 351w's that we could talk to him about. He's had some work done but aren't finished. Just a thought. :D
Ford Aluminum Tri-Pro 5.0 302/351-W $299.00 $275.00


100% Satisfaction Guaranteed!

http://www.tristatecylinderhead.com/catalog/

Single Head Bare
60cc Combustion Chamber
Choice Of 175cc Intake
190cc Intake Runners
210cc Intake Runners
Phosphor Bronze Valve Guides


100% Satisfaction Guaranteed!

Single Head Built Complete $399.00
3/8" Screw-in Studs & Guide Plates
Stainless 2.055" or 2.02" Intake Valves
Stainless 1.600" Exhaust Valves
Performace Springs Good To .550" Hyd. Roller
*130 psi @ 1.800" (closed)
*340 psi @ 1.258" (open)

These are the guys I got my heads from.

Maybe 07GTPONY would be interested by getting involved with a donation. Wink wink nod nod. You know the rules. Donate or put in some real labor and (if you are checked out driver) you can drive the thing when done.


If not, which is fine too of course if he has other plans, which of the above would you recommend? Our application will be boosted. Whether we get the 174 to work or something else . . .

I talked to Pony boy here at work, he will be there Saturday.

Forced induction, is what I've always thought we will go. Fixing the 174 should not be a real problem.

Alum heads would be best all around. But cost---------------
I think I can drive a 4 speed:judge::judge::rolling::rolling::leaving:

351 W
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBF-C...1%7C240%3A1318

Valves are too small. Need chamber size.

Alum heads are really good for forced induction. The aftermaket heads will have the latest "good" chambers and will take more boost than cast iron factory.:judge:

With only 4 head bolts per cylinder we will need to think "O" rings or a VERY special head gasket. I have a DVD on this somewhere.

My extreme upper limit for heads, fully assembled, with MLS gaskets is $1k. Link to your recommendation.

Heads are galdurned important for power, so a little extra scratch here is ok. :leaving: It increases the value and awesomeness of the car in a critical area.

FUNCTIONAL COMPATIBILITY
Should we care so much about matching this head choice to whatever FI we end up with? We're assuming the 174 can be repaired, but if it can't and we go with say a 6/8-71 Turbo (which I have a soft spot for), or if bird can make a bombass hookup with Wieand, will the same heads be equally awesome. I'm assuming yes. The cam is obviously a different story.